I did a large study of different knives with identical sharpening and edge geometry. If you are a newbie, sharpening D2 knives will be a struggle, but it is doable with practice and the right sharpening tools. I think this website is aimed at dispelling these kinds of assertions. Its soft, with very low carbon content. So what is the best steel for knives? We have our views as well, and here they are! The edge retention numbers are normalized to the hardness of the closest toughness test. Steels that can be high in edge retention and toughness are desirable for general use knives. Here is the article by Larrin on 48 steels. Because of the material difference, the blades differ in toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. Read our full Sobata 398 review here. There is no single category that means that a steel is more premium or better than another. But its very cheap, and, when ground appropriately, it can be a real winner from a value standpoint. The difference in properties between 14C28N and D2 steel is very clear. This is a midprice steel with matching performance. Actually, Id be thinking 14C28N, but I want to leave stainless out. LC 200N is an elite performer, with high hardness, high toughness, and off-the-charts corrosion resistance. They have many similarities, including their high hardness, strength, and wear resistance. CPM-REX 121 and Maxamet are both in this category. In a pocket knife the total amount of steel is rather small. These are Chinese-produced steels that recently started showing up in Chinese-made knives. CPM 3V D2 will go through a lot more rope at 58-59 hard than AEB-L will at 64 hard. You cannot leave your 14C28N knives in water overnight and expect them not to rust. The performance of these blades are equally admirable. Sandvik later came out with 14C28N which is a slightly improved version of 13C26. 14c28n is the most popular material for the knife: stainless steel and made by the Swedish company. The Vargo Sobata 398 is unlike any other knife on this list. Editors note: This article was first published in May 2015 and was most recently updated on May 25, 2020. Thanks to its very high hardness (64-66 HRc compared to the average of 58-62 HRc), ZDP-189 can be ground thinner and sharpened less often. Hit like and all t. second it might be of importance which way you sharpened because if against the edge the steels might have reacted differently to the contamination remaining on the edge. Obviously Ill let you check the manuscript prior to publication. Very much appreciate you. Therefore, ensure to wash and dry your knives after use to keep the rust away. 8Cr13MoV is comparable to the Japanese AUS-8 but containing slightly higher carbon content. Five years ago, S30V had a premium price. In other words, heat treating a steel to its maximum hardness does not necessarily mean reduced corrosion resistance. 14c28n is the most popular material for the knife: stainless steel and made by the Swedish company. I hope you will find value in the articles on this website. If I made some plane irons from AEB-L at 63 Rc (where its still tougher than 1095 at 59-60 Rc, the standard vintage steel in plane irons), could I drop my sharpening angle from 30-35 to 25? Softer steel usually forms larger burrs and they are more difficult to deburr. Using controlled furnace heat treating resulted in toughness around 23-28 ft-lbs at 61-62 Rc, while the knifemaker heat treated specimens were 7 ft-lbs or below. I cant seem to match steel to the SS data points on the toughness/tcc graph. 14C28N steel, also known as Sandvik 14C28N, is stainless steel made by Sandvik, a European steel company in Sweden. LC200N has similar properties to those two but with saltwater levels of corrosion resistance. High wear resistance is not particularly necessary when only performing chopping, and its good ease in sharpening helps when having to restore the edges. 14C28N and D2 knives are affordable high-end knives. What makes 1.4116 such a bad performer in regards to toughness on par with ultra high carbide steel like S125V? D2 is not a bad steel, but it has been around a long time and is somewhat mundane by current standards. Deburring of edges often takes even longer than removing material to produce the edge. Properties: 14C28N: D2: Edge retention: 4/10: 7/10: Ease of sharpening: 6/10: 3/10: Corrosion resistance: 4/10: 4/10: Toughness: 14C28N and D2 steel are not the same. This is one of the better steels on the market. SPY27 Working closely with our factory the heat treating of this steel has been perfected resulting in excellent performance for the price. See the chart below showing 52100 steel that was overaustenitized (unintentionally) by a knifemaker that sent me specimens for toughness testing. Which knife for best? Theyre excellent for choppers, hard-use folders, and outdoor knives that see impacts and heavy use when used at medium hardness. Theres still a lot of misinformation being pushed by influencers especially in knife steel rankings. I did a test with knives in 440A (stainless), D2 (high alloy steel with some corrosion resistance), and 1095 (no corrosion resistance). My name is Jonathan M, and Im a passionate Mechanical Engineer, a knife enthusiast, and the author of this website. 1. I have an article that lists off the major mistakes often made in heat treating. But I think it would have much higher toughness than any of the steels on the chart. Why does Maxamet and Rex 121 stay the same tcc but Zmax drops and 15v goes from below 900 to over? CRKT and Spyderco use BD1. In reality hardly difference. Lots of information is still specific to this article, however. In particular, I have found the ESEE/Rowen 1095 to be less likely to chip and better at holding an edge than the KA-BAR version even in knives with the same role, thickness, and blade length. Rather than upgrade from D2 to M4 or S30V just drop the angle from 40 degrees to 30 degrees. Hi Larrin Your estimate of 420HCs corrosion resistance is different here than in your October, 2019 post on corrosion resistance testing: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/10/14/corrosion-resistance-testing/ It has excellent edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. This is a powder-metal steel also produced by Crucible. With toughness it is a bit harder to link to only one article as I dont really have a summary of all of the toughness testing that we have done. Is there a reason SG2/R2 are not included in the lineup, despite being one of the most popular ones? Its so high in hardness that Maxamet knives usually ship with desiccating packages. Note:Dont bother with anything less than 8Cr in this series. False treatment and geometry upheld by Made in USA is like buying 8Cr from China (except late A.G) My personal experience tops with Vanadis 4E, CPM-M4, RWL-34 and the likes. It is most useful for steels with large amounts of carbide but also helps to be able to add certain carbide types. While higher hardness does lead to improved edge retention the bigger reason to have higher hardness is for resisting edge deformation. In many cases, the D2 edge sharpness may last a bit longer. CPM-S90V, CPM-S110V, CPM-10V, and Bohler K390 each fit in this category. while its a very intuitive method and a simple way to e.g. And a label: AEB-L. Below, weve listed some of the attributes you might want out of your steel and given some examples in both the more expensive powder metallurgy steels and more affordable conventionally produced steels. You cant look at only the chromium content of the steel to know the level of corrosion resistance. European steel company Sandvik produces 14C28N, a non-powder metallurgy steel. You do not expect the prices to be as low as those of low-end knives, but you will get high performance at affordable prices with either. A2 knives need care taken to avoid rust and are often coated to inhibit corrosion. 1. It has enough water-fighting properties that it can be used in marine environments. In nitrogen steels, nitrogen is used as the iron-hardener instead of carbon, thus limiting the possibility of rusting. You can see micrographs of different knife steels to compare their carbides in this article. Steels that are higher in hardness and wear resistance are usually lower in toughness. However, even steel with the best corrosion resistance can rust without proper care. However, Kershaw asked Sandvik to make their 13C26 steel more resistant to corrosion, and the result was 14C28N. The edge retention and ease of sharpening have been what we expect with D2. One of the more common stainless steels, and one readily available in lots of different places worldwide, AUS-8 is a decent all-around steel. have extremely high edge retention. 1.4116 got a 2.5 for toughness and edge retention where as 420HC got a 9 for toughness and a 2.5 for edge retention. Take a look at this edge retention test. However,M390, CTS-204P, and CPM-20CV are all pretty difficult to resharpen, so maintain that edge! I couldnt find much on 5160 steel and from a knife makers point of view if you are saying youre the preferred supplier of special ops than I dont understand this choice in knife steel. My other knives are a Real Steel E77 8cr14mov. Not every wood is soft pine. its like with cars, most of them are not a corvette or a porsche. Continue with Recommended Cookies. The value being slightly different doesnt mean its an outlier or measurement error. The hardness of the carbides does not matter much unlike with edge retention. Does that mean that companies like Tops, Kabar and ESEE would be better off using 420HC instead of 1095 on their fixed blades? CPM-3V is a powder metallurgy contender in this category. It is certainly possible for a knifemaker or heat treating company to do a heat treatment that will have suboptimal properties. Corrosion Resistance: D2 steel has a higher chromium content than 8Cr13MoV, which makes it better at resisting corrosion and wear. If you're stuck between 14C28N and 440C, here's a breakdown of the pros and cons of each type of steel. I am particularly interested in researching knife steel, knife properties, and brands. CPM 10V But keep in mind that no steel is perfect for everything. This is the steel used in Swiss Army knives and is excellent for beginner sharpeners. Read more. This is a nitrogen steel that is extremely corrosion-resistant so much so that its used in knives designed to go in salt water, among the most difficult conditions knives are used in. There is one exception: Bucks 420HC (Buck and onlyBuck) is produced using a proprietary heat treatment. I will be focusing on CATRA edge retention which measures abrasive wear of knives. A2 is a tool steel renowned for toughness. Fix-It Sticks Compact Ratcheting Multi-Tool Review, Toughness, Wear Resistance, Corrosion Resistance. It does have chromium but is not as sufficient as required to be a type of stainless steel. Also, if you want a fishing knife, 14c28n steel will survive better in wet areas than D2. There is buzz out there but I havent seen anything solid yet in the world of steel. Its a costly and challenging process, but it makes extremely fine-grained steels, some of the best for knives, and makes some processes that were previously impossible a reality. The 8Cr13MoV vs D2 debate. Not as tough as the best carbon steels, it's tougher than most . High toughness steels can be produced without powder metallurgy and also have low wear resistance for lower manufacturing costs. Most of the discussion of how the ratings were generated, various caveats and details, etc. Old time 8670, 5160 (known to ignoramuses as 51shitty) and 52100 are excellent choices and arguably better choices than 80crv2. They represent the absolute best performers on the market in terms of their specific attributes. Which one is right for you? 14C28N and D2 steel are not the same. At the end of the article I gave a list of reasons why I hadnt made my own ratings chart, two big reasons were: 1) I didnt yet have articles explaining what edge retention and toughness even is (this was early on in Knife Steel Nerds), 2) I didnt have good experimental numbers on many steels. vanax How could it be? Nitro V vs 14C28N Last but not least, 14C28N contains comparatively more vanadium elements which makes the carbides more harder and strong, which gives 14C28N a better edge retention. After the steel is quenched it is reheated to a lower temperature to increase toughness and decrease hardness. I have a Spyderco K390 knife and I cut leather with it as it is only .090 thick and I seldom have to strop it on 1 micron diamond compound on leather. The most balanced is CPM-MagnaCut which is in an area all by itself on the chart. For these reasons D2 steel is a good for smaller folding knives, but is not ideal for large fixed blades such as dedicated choppers and large survival knives. There has been some internet controversy over the grinding and heat treat of this steel. Anthony Sculimbrene authors the blog EverydayCommentary.com. It also improves edge retention and strength. But unlike most high-end steels, SPY27 is an easily user-serviceable powder steel. Marco, BSc Chem. I feel like it sharpens as easy as D2. Very acute edges are more brittle but remain sharp for longer and cut very well. Almost all of the knives in my EDC rotation are Spydercos, in exotic steels. It richly deserves its reputation for high-quality gained over the years by Sandvik, a Swedish manufacturer of world-renowned steel. edge retention can vary by several orders of magnitude depending on what happens to the burr. If you want to check the quality of my work, just search for The EDC Bible on Amazon. it seems like all the pieces are in place to develop an algorithm for this. High wear resistance steels are more expensive to buy and to process, especially since many require powder metallurgy. Looks like there is no reason to us it over 420HC. For example, increasing edge retention from Z-Tuff to 3V (100 mm in the CATRA test) led to a drop in over 10 ft-lbs, a similar drop is seen by going from 3V to CPM-CruWear. The ultra high corrosion resistance steels Vanax or LC200N max out around 60-61 Rc instead. 2. The greatest living knifemaker and one of the greatest knifemakers of all time, Michael Walker, calls AEB-L one of his favorite steels. Is there some way we might predict the relative "effective toughness" of different steels at different hardness and at different edge angles? These steels have sufficient toughness to handle thinner edge geometry. 14C28N steel is as a result of a more corrosion resistant version of the 13C26 steel. This is one of the fundamental tradeoffs in steel. The biggest factor for cost of knife steel is whether it is produced with conventional ingot technology or powder metallurgy. There are significant differences between them because 14C28N is stainless steel, while D2 steel is a semi-stainless tool steel. D2 steel also resists chipping better than most stainless steel types. Read about my tests in this article. Other factors that can be added in are corrosion resistance, hardness, and cost. I have a few examples below for steels that I have ranges of hardness tested for both toughness and edge retention. However, there are other factors. In use, its very similar to 440C and VG-10. The D2 steel compares nicely with 14c28n steel in terms of edge retention, as it's quite hard as well. This is a bit of a guess because I cant find un-notched Charpy data on it. Therefore you will use it for a long time without requiring frequent sharpening. These two knives are a little bit more than a pretty face. Recommendations are welcome, If you are cutting against metal I would maybe try K390 in a Spyderco or an S110V knife if you need stainless. This grade can be treated cryogenically to improve edge retention. The best steels with balanced properties include 4V/Vanadis4E, CPM-CruWear, and CPM-M4. The steel comes with increased wear and abrasion resistance properties. Though technically not a stainless steel at least 14% chromium, and D2 usually has 12% it's relatively corrosion-resistant. H1 Let's compare 14c28n steel with other steels, and for this, I use four criteria; Edge Retention, Corrosion resistance, Ease of Sharpness, and Toughness and on a scale of 1-10 (10 being the highest) let's see the performance of each steel. There is an acceptable range for every element so this doesnt mean that 1084 will always have exactly 0.84% carbon. Time and use have proven this to be quite accurate. Its possible that there are steel manufacturers with better processing which would lead to an even carbide distribution but I cant say that without seeing it for myself. If you are looking for a high-end knife on a budget, the varieties of both steel will serve you. Now that is power planer blades, but the principle stands, less carbon and alloy isnt the best for wood working and Id use a steel like 26C3 (1.25% C .30%Cr) for my hand tools and temper them to around 62 hard and use the best angle for wood shaving, not the best angle for cutting rope. The best knife for you should meet your needs and fit your budget. There was significant sharpness loss with 1095, almost none with 440A, and D2 was in between. Most of the midrage ifferings have 14c28n, how does it compare to d2 in your experience? For example, D2 has enough chromium to be stainless (~12%) but its high carbon means that too much chromium carbide is formed to leave enough chromium for stainless levels of corrosion resistance. Distilled water can separate steels that are stainless vs those that are not. 20? AEB-L and 14C28N are the best in the high toughness group. Display: 24 per page Sort by: Featured View CIVIVI Voltaic Flipper Knife Stainless Steel Handle With Micarta Inlay (3.48" 14C28N Blade) $88.30 Add to cart Both of those things are no longer an issue as I now have way too many articles and a book. Because of its abrasion-eating hardness, knives with REX 121 come at an exceptionally high price. The highest edge retention steel was Rex 121 which was at 70 Rc in combination with lots of high hardness vanadium carbides. These steels favor edge retention over all else. Should you continue to scroll further, you may find yourself lost in a seemingly endless list of knife steel wealth and knowledge. 14C28N steel holds good hardness. Is it similar but worse or better at one of the 3 things? While 9Cr18MoV steel is highly corrosion resistant due to the addition of Cr, and Mo. I tested its edge wear resistance but not its toughness yet. A more obtuse edge angle is much more resistant to chipping than an acute edge. Its actually quite good, low-cost steel that performs like midprice steel. Pretty interesting that regrinding a knife you already have can seemingly take its performance to that of significantly better steels. It had better than expected corrosion resistance due to the lack of chromium carbides, a behavior also seen in MagnaCut. Cookie Notice Spyderco and Cold Steel have used it, though Cold Steel recently switched to S35VN due to availability concerns. Steels 7Cr and below arent worth your time or money. Steels without these attributes are much less costly. Even though it has very high hardness, its also still decently resistant to corrosion and quite tough. Sandvik 14C28N steel is better than D2 steel in corrosion resistance and toughness. However the 14c28n steel would be great for an EDC knife with typical usage. And steels with at least 10% chromium are probably stainless, except for several important exceptions like D2 and ZDP-189. G10 Corrosion on knife steels most usually takes the form of rust, patina, and staining. If the properties of a knife meet your knife needs and it has the above characteristics, then it qualifies as a quality knife. I was just comparing AEB-L and 14c28n to decide which steel to get for my next knife project and although 14c28n seems to be a bit more abrasion resistant, my primary goal is toughness and edge stability. There are a lot of different types of steel out there . I wont go into detail about those here. The only thing putting me off immediately buying the p135 is the 14c28n steel. D2 steel offers better edge retention and wear resistance than 14C28N. Edge retention is the ability of a knife to maintain cutting ability during cutting. -> Maybe prequenched 14c28n could be a little tougher than AEB-L? Steel produced in China is generally less expensive. D2 steel is a ordinary tool steel and knife steel. But it would be my recommendation for applications requiring extreme corrosion resistance. What carbon/tool steel would you choose for a survival knife if a PM steel was too expensive? rex 121 Spyderco has their own salt spray test setup to determine the corrosion resistance and they determined that MagnaCut is sufficiently corrosion resistant for their salt series of knives. Many steels are very similar to one another but go by different names from different manufacturers. Vanax gives up some toughness and hardness vs MagnaCut for saltwater levels of corrosion resistance. One such person is Dr. Larrin Thomas, a professional metallurgist raised by a knife maker and a giant knife nerd. The blackwashed D2 steel blade of the Kershaw Cannonball offers pretty good corrosion resistance for D2. Goes to show that science not marketing or conjecture is what determines a good steel, 51shitty? Instead, Vargo titanium uses a unique material called sintered titanium-ceramic alloy. Blue Super and 1.2562 have higher edge retention but relatively low toughness. 14C28N steel is known to offer the highest toughness levels out there. Not every element is shown in the charts. In general, the more carbide the steel has and the larger the carbides the lower is the toughness. High Speed steels are a subset that have significant additions of Mo and/or W that makes them resist softening when they are used for machining operations. Because of its difficulty in sharpening and machining, its very rarely used and comes with a high price premium. 440A D2 steel does not contain enough chromium to make it stainless steel. I was thinking maybe Sleipner or A2 would be best if a PM steel was out. Its not a regression line, it is just a line through the best steels. There are also hardness/toughness and hardness/TCC charts.but no tables backing this charts. Thanks! Find your right answers here! The both blade are equally wear resistant. This can turn the ultra corrosion resistant LC200N or Vanax into a normal stainless steel that will rust with only 1% saltwater. By that I dont mean that a better heat treatment is not possible, but that major mistakes in heat treating are avoided. Toughness is the resistance to chipping or breaking. I also have meat cleaver 1,4116 ,58RC that I order and was looking up if its a good steel or did waist money and need to return it. On the positive side, they are very easy to forge and grind. Then we could say, e.g. 14C28N knives offer better toughness than D2 knives. The Kershaw Leek is a most popular EDC knife that design by legendary custom knife maker Ken Onion. There are still a few things I dont know but we have enough information to make educated guesses where data isnt available. The 10V specimens tempered at 1000F were 4-5 ft-lbs while the specimens tempered at 4-500F were 7-8 ft-lbs. It was your original article on ratings that brought me to knifesteel nerds so its great to see your results put back into a form that will no doubt be distributed \ plagiarized widely, hopefully leading to more rational thought and better understanding by the knife consuming public (not that the misleading marketing will go away). In addition, According to Sandvik, 14C28N steel is easy to work on, reducing production costs and hence affordable knives. In many cases the cost of working with the steel for the knife companies is more significant than the cost of the steel itself. While quite soft, the metal cuts even when it seems dull because, at the microscopic level, it has a roughness that performs much like a serration. This makes for a great slicing knife and a perfect steel, in my opinion, for a regular-use, everyday-carry folder. Steels that are improperly heat treated have excess retained austenite which makes them extremely difficult to deburr. A Japanese powder steel, ZDP-189 is essentially the polar opposite of 3V its uber-hard instead of uber-tough. A lot of custom makers also like S110V, including the great RJ Martin. Even it enhances corrosion resistance and wear resistance. Im a woodworker and Im interested in making better performing plane irons and chisels. D2 steel is high carbon steel with no extra addition of Cr or Mo, that's why it is prone to corrosion. 14% of Chromium: Increases corrosion resistance and wear resistance. This is especially important for chopping knives and for knives with thin edges for enhanced cutting ability and edge retention. Contact me if you have any questions or input! The reason is because sharpening and edge geometry will also greatly control properties. The steel is susceptible to overheating during hardening do not overheat. I made most of my leather knives from O1v (O1 with .20V) that I hold at 1475 for 15 mins and quench in 120-130 F AAA oil and Kevin Cashen is where those parameters came from btw. Plus the charts get messier, and I dont always have data for a wide range of hardness values. The D2, on the other hand, has a thicker and more durable blade that is better suited for tough tasks like chopping wood or prying open cans. Read more. It doesnt hold an edge well, but its so easy to sharpen that you can get it back to razor sharpness in a few minutes. They tend to be relatively expensive and difficult to sharpen, as they have high wear resistance. Among Vancron SuperClean, Agomi #1 and Shirogami #1, Which one tends to have finer grain size and Sharper edge? Read more. 14c28n steel has a high Chromium and Carbon percentage. The bump in hardness comes from precipitation of fine carbides in the steel, read an article I wrote on budget steels here, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/26/new-micrographs-of-42-knife-steels/, https://i0.wp.com/knifesteelnerds.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/stainless-toughness-10-19-21.jpg?w=757&ssl=1, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/10/14/corrosion-resistance-testing/, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/03/02/cpm-spy27-experiments-toughness-corrosion-resistance-and-more/, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/03/cryogenic-part1/, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/10/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-2/, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/17/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-3/, The Pros And Cons Of Stainless Steel Copper And Aluminum Brewing Equipment SanctuaryBrewCo, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/05/01/testing-the-edge-retention-of-48-knife-steels/.
